<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Anti-pattern: &#8220;End-to-End Process Orchestration&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mainthing.ru/item/131/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/</link>
	<description>@ Anatoly Belychook's BPM Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Anatoly Belychook</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Anatoly Belychook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-609</guid>
		<description>Сергей, загляните вот сюда: http://mainthing.ru/ru/item/150/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Сергей, загляните вот сюда: <a href="http://mainthing.ru/ru/item/150/" rel="nofollow">http://mainthing.ru/ru/item/150/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Сергей</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>Сергей</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-608</guid>
		<description>Продажи - это не сквозной процесс, как мне кажется, а набор фрагментов различных процессов</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Продажи - это не сквозной процесс, как мне кажется, а набор фрагментов различных процессов</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anatoly Belychook</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Anatoly Belychook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Alexander

I follow Bruce Silver's interpretation:
* orchestration = single pool, sequence flow
* choreography = communication between multiple pools, message flow

BPMN 1.1 spec define choreography as "an ordered sequence of B2B message exchanges". It's close to your interpretation because B2B situation implies lesser predictability.

Two interpretations diverge on multi-pool processes with pools representing different process instances, not different business entities. And this is exactly the subject of the original post. Under your interpretation, I should have call it "Single pool end-to-end process". Not a bad idea may be, thank you for the input.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander</p>
<p>I follow Bruce Silver&#8217;s interpretation:<br />
* orchestration = single pool, sequence flow<br />
* choreography = communication between multiple pools, message flow</p>
<p>BPMN 1.1 spec define choreography as &#8220;an ordered sequence of B2B message exchanges&#8221;. It&#8217;s close to your interpretation because B2B situation implies lesser predictability.</p>
<p>Two interpretations diverge on multi-pool processes with pools representing different process instances, not different business entities. And this is exactly the subject of the original post. Under your interpretation, I should have call it &#8220;Single pool end-to-end process&#8221;. Not a bad idea may be, thank you for the input.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AS</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-50</guid>
		<description>http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-7-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-7-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html" rel="nofollow">http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-7-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anatoly Belychook</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Anatoly Belychook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Sorry Alexander, don't understand you. I believe you get choreography as soon as you draw more than one pool and messages accross them. Please share your interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Alexander, don&#8217;t understand you. I believe you get choreography as soon as you draw more than one pool and messages accross them. Please share your interpretation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AS</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-37</guid>
		<description>http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-4-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-4-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html" rel="nofollow">http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-4-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anatoly Belychook</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Anatoly Belychook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Alexander

Of course you diagrammed both choreography and orchestration. The words "branches may go" from your first post are misleading I'm afraid: most people would suppose you mean sequence flow. So it's my turn to ask you be more accurate :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander</p>
<p>Of course you diagrammed both choreography and orchestration. The words &#8220;branches may go&#8221; from your first post are misleading I&#8217;m afraid: most people would suppose you mean sequence flow. So it&#8217;s my turn to ask you be more accurate <img src='http://mainthing.ru/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AS</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-33</guid>
		<description>http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-2-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-2-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html" rel="nofollow">http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-2-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anatoly Belychook</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Anatoly Belychook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Alexander

Please be less pedantic :) Or better ask BPMN standard body to be more precise :)

Of course production goes after ordering - did I said the contrary here? The question is: whether an order fires production (in that case it may be implemented as a subprocess within the same pool) or production is triggered by some other event e.g. by a timer (then it's another pool). My point is that novice BPM desingers tend to use former model but the latter is more realistic.

Branches from a parallel gateway may go over other pools? I seriously doubt this. Not in BPMN. But you are right: parallel gateways do produce asynchronous threads.

My favourite analogy to process choreography is threads programming in java.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander</p>
<p>Please be less pedantic <img src='http://mainthing.ru/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Or better ask BPMN standard body to be more precise <img src='http://mainthing.ru/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Of course production goes after ordering - did I said the contrary here? The question is: whether an order fires production (in that case it may be implemented as a subprocess within the same pool) or production is triggered by some other event e.g. by a timer (then it&#8217;s another pool). My point is that novice BPM desingers tend to use former model but the latter is more realistic.</p>
<p>Branches from a parallel gateway may go over other pools? I seriously doubt this. Not in BPMN. But you are right: parallel gateways do produce asynchronous threads.</p>
<p>My favourite analogy to process choreography is threads programming in java.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AS</title>
		<link>http://mainthing.ru/item/131/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mainthing.ru/?p=131#comment-31</guid>
		<description>http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html" rel="nofollow">http://improving-bpm-systems.blogspot.com/2008/12/comment-on-anti-pattern-end-to-end.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
